9 Myths about Addiction

How to Support Your Loved One

Family Dysfunction and the Roles We Play

If You're in an Abusive Relationship, Here's What You Should Do

085 Daniel Bates- How To Find A Wife

Wish Your Guy Would Initiate More? Here's Why He Isn't

Can you be Vulnerable?

Recently there was a dramatic news story from the Pacific Northwest. Jennifer Huston a 38 year old wife and mother of 2 went missing. It became a national story. People from all over the country were on the lookout for her. Then to everyone’s sadness she was discovered a few miles away from her home, dead. She had committed suicide.

This is an incredibly sad story in so many ways. A husband who lost a dearly loved wife. 2 young children who will never know their mother’s love again. There is no way to fully understand the devastation that this family has experienced and will experience for years to come.

As I heard more about the story I couldn’t help but think about the statements the husband made.

‘Jennifer, if you could see this or hear this, I love you,’
‘You have a ton of support from the community. If you can come home, please do. The boys need you. I need you. I love you.
‘We’ll never stop looking for you.’
He went on to call the disappearance ‘completely out of character for her. She loves me, she loves the boys.’

These statements lead me to believe that this husband was completely unaware of the depth of despair his wife must have been feeling about her life.

Why is that? If there was the love that he seems to think there was, how could he have been so blind to the fact that his wife was contemplating suicide? Why didn’t she let him know? Did someone know?

I think by now everyone knows the big signs that often point to someone contemplating suicide. It seems in this case there may have been no obvious signs, so what is a person to do? If the obvious signs aren’t there the biggest thing you can do is communicate in a vulnerable way.

I am not talking about simply communicating about everyday things. How was work…how was school…did you do anything fun today… These are the questions that people are used to and ask every day. It’s the non-routine questions that are difficult to ask.
Are you happy in your life…can I do anything to make our relationship better…can I do anything to make this family the best in the world.

The answers to these questions can be and usually are difficult to hear, but they open a completely different way to view relationships. They create vulnerability. Vulnerability can create a stronger relationship. Vulnerability allows people who love one another to create a stronger bond and trusting relationship. Being vulnerable can change lives. Who will you be vulnerable with today?

Doc David

Head Shrink Inc

Marijuana: The New Alcohol

With the recent legalization of Marijuana in Washington and Colorado State, mandatory minimum drug sentences cut, the release of low-level drug users from prisons to reduce overpopulation, and the distribution of marijuana growing and selling licenses, Christians can no longer avoid the subject of pot.

Since there is no explicit passage in the Bible addressing the use of marijuana, Christians have responded to the pot debate in differing ways. The two passages often cited are Romans 13:1-7, where Paul commands Christians to respect the governing authorities and the law of the land. And Ephesians 5:18 where Paul commands the church to not drink wine to the point of intoxication, but instead be filled with the Holy Spirit. And the Apostle Paul again in I Cor. 6:19-20 where he speaks about the sacred nature of our bodies and how we are to respect them and treat them as holy since they are the resting place for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

So, this raises a few questions. Since marijuana use is now the law of the land, is it wrong to use? In the eyes of the law and among many people who use pot, weed is likened to alcohol. The rules that apply to alcohol also apply to pot such as you cannot use pot and drive, its illegal for minors, and you cannot be publicly intoxicated.

Also, if you used pot, but didn't smoke to intoxication, would it then be permissible to use? Since pot use is the law of the land, and if one used it responsibly, not smoking to the point of intoxication, it would seem many of the barriers for Christians have been removed.

I must admit, for a very long time I was one of those Christians who looked down on pot and those who used it, but with all the recent changes I have been forced to consider the subject in greater depth. Frankly, I don't have any resolute answers, mostly questions. However, I think its "high" time we Christians have a more open discussion on the matter. Despite the freedom to use, are there any reasons to abstain?

With alcohol, most have a few drinks and don't go on to the point of drunkenness. In fact, many enjoy beer, wine, scotch, whiskey, bourbon, and so on for the sake of the drink itself. Or they drink for relaxation, health benefits (moderate amounts of wine have been to shown to have many benefits) or til the point of a slight to moderate buzz. Surely, many take drinking too far and the line of drunk and buzzing can be very hazy. But there is no implicit assumption with alcohol (unless you're a part of a fraternity) that the only way to enjoy drinking is by drinking to excess.

I've often heard it said that misusing something to the point of excess is true of many things such as food, alcohol, video games, gambling and so on. What's the difference between someone who overeats til the point of food "intoxication" and smoking weed til the point of getting high? Therefore, those who selectively focus on weed to the exclusion of the "other" things, that are overused, are hypocritical.

Point taken. It is true that many "other" things are misused and that is fair point, but is it a salient point. Just because the misuse of something else happens doesn't dismiss the problem with misuse of marijuana.

We must consider the purpose of things such as food. Food is for the purpose of sustenance and the continuance of life. There is an inherent need for food, its purpose is good. Obviously people can and do misuse food in bad ways, but that is a violation of its purpose. Or take alcohol such as wine.

The purpose of wine is something to facilitate relaxation, increase pleasure and health benefits. There is even a Biblical basis for the responsible consumption alcohol. Paul recommended to Timothy to have a little (I Tim. 5:23). Or the author of the proverb who recommended wine to those who are suffering (Proverbs 31:6-7). But alcohol is misused to the point of intoxication and the effects can devastating if heavy drinking persists. However, this is a misuse of the intended purpose of alcohol. Besides medical marijuana, the inherent purpose of marijuana is for getting high. Its not a matter of misusing something inherently good for bad purpose, the very purpose of marijuana is for intoxication which is in clear violation of the Ephesians 5:18 mandate.

However, this often seems to be the case with pot smoking. I haven't heard of many people smoking a little bit of pot for the pleasure of smoking pot. Or smoking to the point of relaxation or to a slight to moderate buzz. It seems that smoking weed comes along with assumption or social pressure to get high. Getting high, although not explicitly addressed in Ephesians 5:18 however the principle I would argue still applies, violates the command to not be drunk. This for me is problematic.

There are also some strong health concerns when using marijuana.

"Marijuana use can have a variety of adverse, short- and long-term effects, especially on cardiopulmonary and mental health..." 

"Marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses" (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

And the the negative impact it has on one's mental health.

"Associations have also been found between marijuana use and other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts among adolescents, and personality disturbances, including a lack of motivation to engage in typically rewarding activities. More research is still needed to confirm and better understand these linkages"

"A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large prospective studies also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at  increased risk for later problems" (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

If there are serious health concerns, then how does smoking marijuana comply with the mandate from scripture to treat our bodies as temples? (I Cor. 6:19-20). Surely, this article could die the death of a thousand qualifications. Of course there are health risks to many other things we consume from fast food to inhaling second hand smoke when hanging out with a friend. But, those are aren't excuses for dismissing the concerns raised by smoking weed.

Also, there is a potentially addictive element with weed. Clearly this is true with alcohol as well. However, many studies have found that weed is a gateway drug for those who go on to use hardcore drugs and develop addictions. It is not true that those who use weed go on to be hardcore drug users. But it is true that those who are hardcore drug users started with weed.

"Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among daily users (to 25-50 percent). Thus, many of the nearly 7 percent of high-school seniors who (according to annual survey data) report smoking marijuana daily or almost daily are well on their way to addiction, if not already addicted (besides functioning at a sub-optimal level all of the time)" (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

Weed has a strong de-motivating effect for moderate to heavy users who smoke consistently. For younger users who use heavily there is a significant impact on IQ scores later on in life.

"Marijuana use is associated with a higher likelihood of dropping out from school. Several studies also associate workers' marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers' compensation claims, and job turnover" http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

Keep in mind in most of these studies they are finding correlations and not causation. So we cannot say "Smoking weed = "X"", but we can say "Smoking weed is associated with "X"" and in some cases strongly correlated. Furthermore, I think there are many untapped potential benefits to further research of weed. The medical applications are huge.

So, where does that leave us? I'm afraid not with many definite answers. The issue is neither black or white, but somewhere in between. Therefore, I for one think smoking weed is a personal choice, in other words, it comes down to your conscience, your reckoning of the pertinent Bible passages, and ultimately, you and God. I have chosen to not partake, but I am hard pressed to judge another severely for choosing otherwise.

We do after all, have freedom in Christ (II Cor. 3:17), but let that not be a license for disrespecting our bodies, smoking to intoxication, or disobeying the laws of the land (i.e. being high while driving). Your freedom does not negate your duty to be accountable to the Body of Christ. Neither let another's choice to smoke be a cause for judgment.

*To listen to our upcoming podcast on the subject checkout: http://headshrinkinc.podbean.com/

Technologically Created Loneliness

The thing that supposedly connects us together in fact is the thing that drives us apart. What I am talking about? Social media.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my social media. I'm on several social media sites, and I spend a fair amount of time during the week on them. But, after watching this video clip and making some self-reflections on my social media habits I've come to the realization that social media creates a false sense of connections. How does it do this?

- Self-Focused/Narcissistic Status Updates: Connection between people typically happens best when two people reciprocate relational interest. What does that mean? One person take a risk and reaches out socially to another, and that person in turn, reciprocates. Status updates have little to do with reaching out to another person. It is possible to leave a message on another person's page, but I rarely see this happen.

- Oversharing: Sharing overly dramatic aspects of one's life in order to get attention. In other words, a serious lack of etiquette and filter. These people are usually insecure and don't know how to get connection with other people so they create an attraction to draw people in.

- Bullying: People say and do things on the internet that they most likely would not say in real life. Why? The internet provides a degree of anonymity and a loss of person-hood. You can say things to an object or avatar that you would feel bad about saying to a sentient being who thinks and feels the same as you.

A further illustration and fascinating look at technologically created loneliness! Check out the link below:

http://www.upworthy.com/loneliness-illustrated-so-beautifully-you-will-need-to-tell-someone?c=ufb1


All that to say, social media is a great thing, but please, do not let it replace real life relationships. Use social media, but use it responsibly!

Sleep Txting: Real or an Excuse?

Dan:                       Hello. Welcome to Head Shrink Inc. My name is Dan Bates. I am a therapist. What’s your name?

David:                   My name is David Simonsen. I am a licensed psycho-therapist, and I see families and couples and teenagers. I work with them and help them with their lives.

Dan:                       Great. I’m also a Therapist and I do everything that David said but I’m not arrogant about it, so self-absorbed. I help people, people love what I do with them but it’s not arrogant. I’m not going to make a big deal about it on the podcast or anything. It’s not like I’m going to draw attention to myself about how many people...

David:                   That’s good. That’s what I love about you, you don’t draw attention to yourself. 

Dan:                       It’s not about me, it’s about the thousands of people that I have helped.

David:                   So, you’ve caught another, if you’re listening, so far, still, you’ve caught another episode of Headshrink Inc. So, today, we wanted to talk about the disturbing phenomena of sleepwalking. So, Dan, have you ever sleepwalked?

David:                       I have sleepwalked? That I’m aware of, I have never sleepwalked.

Dan:                   I’m a notorious sleepwalker. One time when I was chilling, several times actually, one time when I was fully asleep and I was getting into the medicine cabinet and opening medications, and my dad had to stop me. He had to put the clamp down. Son, you’re going to kill yourself and then one time, fully clothed, I was getting into the shower, so I started the shower. I was getting ready, fully clothed, asleep and then another time I was trying to get outside the house. I was fiddling with the lock. The best one, the classic one among my family, is when I fully asleep, middle of the night, walked out to the living room and I just started screaming “Superman.”

David:                       Wow, that’s disturbing.

Dan:                   Why do you have to take it from me? Listen to another funny story from comedian Mike Burbiglia. 

Comedian Mike Birbiglia:

                     About seven years ago, I started walking in my sleep, and I would have these recurring dreams that there was a hovering insect-like jackal in our bedroom. I was living with my girlfriend at the time, and I would jump on the bed, and I would strike a karate pose. I’d never taken karate, but I had the books from Book Fair, and I would say, “Abby”, that was my girlfriend. “There’s a jackal in the room,” and she got so used to it she could talk me down while remaining asleep.

She’d say, “There’s no jackal in the room, go to bed,” and I would say, “Are you sure?” She’d say “Yes, Michael, go to bed. There’s no jackal.” I would say “Okay.” I would go to bed knowing that there was a jackal and that’s trust. It was around that time that I had a dream that I was in the Olympics for some arbitrary event like dust bustering, and they told me I got third place. I stood up on the third place podium and I’m feeling good about myself, I’m new to the sport. They say, “You know, we actually reconsidered it and you got first place.” I said, that’s a marvelous promotion.” I moved over to the first place podium, and it starts wobbling and it’s wobbling and wobbling, and I wake up and was falling off the top of our bookcase in our living room. I land on the floor hard on top of our TiVo, and it broke into pieces. I’m disoriented on the floor.

 It’s like one of those stories where people black out drinking and they wake up in Idaho and they don’t know where they are and they’re like “Oh no!” Hardy’s or whatever’s there but it was in my own living room. I was like “Oh no, TiVo pieces.” I went to bed and Abby woke me up in the morning and she said, “Michael, what happened to the TiVo?” I said, “I got first place and it’s a long story.”

David: Dr. Klein is an internationally recognized expert and an author of articles that target psychological issues, more specifically sleep disorders and impulse control problems. We wanted to talk with Dr. Klein about the phenomena of sleepwalking. Now, we were a little bit confused, Dr. Klein, because when you talk about it in the past tense, is it slept walked? We were talking about Dan here, my co-host, and he had said that he slept walked?

Dr. Klein:             I think the truth is that I had more read on my English papers than I did in my own writing. So, sleepwalking is generally how it is, but that’s not the Queen’s English, slept walked is.

David:                   Slept walked. Okay. So there is the official answer. Well, for the sake of this podcast we’ll go with sleepwalk.

Dr. Klein:             It rolls off your tongue very nicely.

David:                   Okay. Well, thanks for coming on. So, what is this sleepwalking phenomenon? Where does this come from? What’s going on with people when they’re sleepwalking?

Dr. Klein:             It’s really kind of a brain issue. It can be induced by other means such as drugs and alcohol but generally, this is a biochemical reaction in the brain, where the brain is not going into a very deep sleep cycle. So one thing you have to realize is when we go to sleep, there is a part of our brain that paralyzes our bodies a little bit so we don’t get up, and that’s the part that’s not functioning very well.

So, when we’re sleepwalking, we’re actually in a dream state and your body kind of does it. In fact, I remember when I was a kid, to this day, I remember sleepwalking, trying to open the front door of my house in the middle of the night and my mother saying how weird I was, what was I doing?

Dan:                       So, as I’ve heard people tell stories about sleepwalking because I’m a therapist, I think “Oh, it’s the deeper meaning of that,” but I think what you’re saying is there is not necessarily always a deeper meaning. It’s just a brain chemical thing.

Dr. Klein:             Yes. There are associations a little bit more with stress sometimes just like everything else just about, but it’s not exactly coming from stressful trauma events necessarily, to answer your question.

David:                   Oh bummer. That’s disappointing.

Dan:                       So, is it that the people can’t go into the REM cycle or people, when they are in the REM cycle, they don’t have that neurochemical that’s stopping them from moving.

Dr. Klein:             That’s right, that’s exactly right. It’s the safeguard that, animals have this too or you’d see your dog running around the house. Of course, he does REM around the house any. I look at it very simply is, it’s a safety mechanism and kids do this. Now, here’s something very interesting in children. Being in the middle of Missouri, people go to the Rockies and they’ll go up in the Rockies, and then their kids will come back and their kids sleepwalk. They’ll say, “I’ve never done this before. Oh, it’s random,” but I’ve heard it 20 times in the past several years.

So some researchers say it’s a little less oxygen in your brain that tends to trigger it, like in a higher altitude, then some people say sleep apnea’s connected with sleep apnea and we’re trying to figure that out, maybe, maybe not. Generally, we have this issue of the safety mechanism, and the opposite side of this is called narcolepsy, where you’re talking again to your dog and your dog just falls asleep right in front of you and that also occurs too.

Dan:                       That’s interesting because I was thinking when you’re saying the less oxygen, maybe there’s like a survival mechanism in your body. You somehow, unbeknownst to you, when you’re asleep in an environment where there’s not enough oxygen so your brain triggers “Get up and go to a place where there’s more oxygen.”

David:                   It wouldn’t make sense in the reverse with the narcolepsy because there is really no advantage to that.

Dr. Klein:             No, there isn’t. It’s funny for narcolepsy, you generally prescribe stimulants or things that are like stimulants that are also used for ADHD. It energizes the brain and it stops that but in sleepwalking, sometimes you’re prescribed [Inaudible 0:11:24] it’s like a sedative because you can hurt yourself but you generally don’t. Here’s a really interesting one; this has been argued in court. Have you guys ever heard that?

David:                   The court case that I’ve heard of that had to do with sleepwalking was like a sleep sex thing. Is that what you’re referring to?

Dr. Klein:             Actually what I remember is, it was murder.

Dan:                       Yes. When a husband strangled his wife, I don’t know if he killed her, but he attempted it.

Dr. Klein:             It was attempted murder or something, that’s right. So, there is this argument about when you’re sleepwalking, what can you really do and not do. What I’ve learned it’s generally not a very complex thing. It’s like opening a door, it’s walking around the house. I remember one case study years ago, a guy went into the kitchen and he would make eggs, but he would put dog food in his eggs but the wife would come in and try to stop him, and he got rageful. Again, we have night terrors, that’s more or less a child thing, but it happens in adults too.

A night terror is not in REM sleep like you were referring to before, which is the early morning dreaming. It’s a different dream state that’s usually about a couple of hours after you go to bed and guess where sleepwalking is? It’s in that zone. It’s not necessarily in the early morning although it can be. So you’re in this kind of funny state again where your body should be put to sleep and you’re not walking but that mechanism is not working.

Dan:                       I’ve always heard the myth, at least I’ve seen it on TV when someone’s sleepwalking, you shouldn’t wake them because they’ll become  or turn into an animal or psychological damage or they’ll freak out. They’ll go into a rage or something. Is that true or is that a myth?

Dr. Klein:             Well, No. I think you can be hit, pushed, because, again, you’re in this funny dream state, and you’re not processing the external environment. Now, I haven’t heard of anybody getting severely hurt, but back to the dog food and egg scenario, that lady said that her husband would hit her. So, again with little kids, you generally, first of all, they can be screaming, they could be walking around the house or whatever.

You just generally take them back to their room and then they go back to sleep. You don’t engage them, you don’t talk to them. You might hold their hand, so to speak or you might gently kind of bring them back to your room or whatever, and that’s true with adults too.

David:                   I have to confess something. I’m a bad parent because my oldest daughter…

Dan:                       We all knew that.

David:                   Oh, did you? Okay. So, my oldest daughter sleepwalks occasionally, and I don’t lead her back to her bedroom by her hand. I engage her in conversation.

Dan:                       You should record them.

David:                   I should. My wife and I definitely start engaging her in conversations when we realize because it’s more entertaining. I don’t feel bad for her, it just entertains me.

Dr. Klein:             You may have a little scientific study going on but does your daughter remember that event in the morning?

David:                   No, not usually.

Dr. Klein:             That’s the clue and that’s true with sleepwalking too except why did I remember going to the front door? I don’t know, to be honest with you, but it’s a little bit unusual because I was like, I don’t know, seven years old, I do remember that but most people do not remember the sleepwalking or night terrors, but they remember dreams from the REM state, which is again earlier in the morning.

Dan:                       What, in your experience has been the scariest sleepwalking story you have heard?

Dr. Kline:             People going to edges of balconies.

Dan:                       Actually going over?

Dr. Kline:             Not going over but coming close to where you would think about could they have gone over. I’ve had a couple people say “What’s wrong with all these plants, and why are they messed up?” Again, they blame their dog, but they don’t have a dog this time, it’s their husband who went out on the porch and kind of roamed around and kicked over some stuff because again, you’re in a funny situation. Your eyes are open, it’s kind of an in-between state is what it is.

Dan:                       I wonder if the mind would protect a person still, if you did go up to a balcony and you saw that it was three stories down, because your eyes are open, there is some part of your brain that processes that, that you’re not going to hurt yourself or kill yourself.

Dr. Kline:             Well, right and I think, because there is not a lot of strong evidence that there have been people that it has been proven where they’ve jumped off a balcony, kind of the same argument you have in hypnosis is what you’re saying too. You don’t do things that are way, but however, here’s the mystery. There has been speculation where people have fallen down stairs or tripped because they didn’t see something and landed on a hard kitchen floor and died and they’ve had a sleepwalking history, but you can’t prove it because sleepwalking is off and on.

You wonder it so probably there is an argument for accidents to occur in that state but again, most sleepwalking is walking out to the living room and back to your bedroom again. It’s usually not real complicated. You’re not up for hours generally, and this cooking eggs phenomenon was very, very unusual. It’s usually this little stuff or talking out loud. The other one is where you just might be talking in bed or sitting up in bed and talking.

David:                   Dan does that. His wife has told me some funny stories about him screaming in bed.

Dan:                       I have done that but when I was a kid, I would sleepwalk and I would remember waking up, one time I went into the living room and I just started screaming “superman.” My sister kind of guided me back to my bed, and I was very compliant.

David:                   Fly back to bed.

Dan:                       I do remember kind of flashes of memory of waking up as “Why am I standing up out of my bed in the living room, and my sister’s telling me it’s okay.” Of course, it’s okay, why is she telling me it’s okay?

Dr. Kline:             Right. It’s interesting again because you’re in that semi-consciousness where you wouldn’t think you would remember anything, but you are and that’s the difference. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. It probably depends on maybe where you are in your sleep cycle also or if you are coming out of a certain stage and for your audience, you know there are about five sleep cycles that you go through.

One of them is extremely deep where your body goes into this very, I’m not going to use the word appropriately, but comatose state and that’s where kids, by the way, do bedwetting is in that state generally, in that deep, deep cycle. So these things kind of go around, they kind of connect a little bit.

David:                   It makes sense to me with our obsession with technology with texting and things like that but you discuss that there’s a newer phenomenon of sleep texting.

Dr. Kline:             Absolutely. I’m going to say it’s a little strange. I mean, picture your wife or your partner and you look at her cell phone and you see this message to some past boyfriend, “Honey, I miss you.” What do you do with that? You’re a primary therapist, you would go, “We have a problem here,” but some people are arguing that they don’t know what they’re doing, and I think that if you could think of it, take your phone, actually communicate like that, do a complex set of gestures or whatever or texting with your fingers and get that done, that’s what doesn’t make sense because sleep texting should be like sleepwalking.

 It’s a little too complicated, but people are reporting this and honestly, I don’t know if it’s trying to get around something or if it’s actually sleep texting. There are a few case studies where we’re beginning to see that again, it looks like it could be but there are other types of sleep texting. One of them is, medications do that, Ambien, sleep aids, stuff like this. They’ll put you in that in-between state so you get up and you do a message, but you don’t remember it or I’ve had people order stuff through the Internet, and they don’t remember it and they get this box in the mail and they’re going “What?”

David:                   That’s true. I can vouch for the Ambien thing. My wife has taken that before, and she had a friend the next day said “What do you mean with these texts that she’d sent that she didn’t remember sending. So, I’ve seen that piece of sleep texting firsthand but I think it’s a misnomer, though, because are you really sleeping or is it that you were awake but you just don’t remember?

Dr. Kline:             Right. I think a lot of that in my opinion, is because your short-term working memory could be a little fuzzy. It’s like, what did you eat for breakfast two days ago? In that analogy, you do have those memory issues so I agree. I think you wake up, and you might order something. But then you kind of forget because your brain isn’t totally aware and I think that cut in awareness can occur. And also it occurs with Ambien, alcohol, some prescription medicines you did that.

I’m struggling with complex messages, but the people who said “I texted my past girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever it was,” they’re really saying “I’m not having an affair, I’m not really interested in him anymore.” So why would I do this? You see what I mean, that’s a question that they say.

Dan:                       Well, the thing that pops up in my mind is, say, the guy who goes out and makes the eggs with the dog food, he’s acting out something that’s not real. The texting, though, those messages are meaningful, they’re not like the dog is flying into my soup, stop the dog. It’s not related to the weird dream state, it’s a meaningful message.

Dr. Kline:             Right. And that’s the difference because if you would text your past boyfriend a jumbled message, oh, that would make sense like “Get the cat food” or something, that would make sense, but these are meaningful messages, and that’s where I stop my thought and say that seems to be something more than meets the eye on that.

David:                   So potentially that would be, whereas, the sleepwalking stuff would not necessarily subconscious, it’s just a jumble of random dream state stuff but the messages would be more subconscious thoughts coming out.

Dan:                       I’ve heard different theories on why do we dream. I’ve heard some people say it’s just like the residue of your day, the things you didn’t process. I’ve also heard it’s your subconscious so whatever is in your subconscious, that’s the material for your dreams. If you took that view, you could say that this person acted out this subconscious feeling through their sleepwalking or sleep texting.

David:                   So, dreams I’ve heard are something that’s happened, something you want to have happen or something that will happen.

Dan:                       If you hold to the subconscious.

David:                   Now that was from an eighth grade science fair, I’ll always remember that.

Dr. Kline:             That’s still science. One of the thing I do, I do a lot of brain imagery studies for a bunch of things, but some of my colleagues are saying memory stuff or dreams have to do with memory. They’re solidifying memory. So, that’s kind of what you were saying a little bit in that conversation too was it could be with that. The sleep texting is, I think, it’s a way out for some people. I mean, to be honest with you, they’ve kind of done something they shouldn’t have, but I’m still open to the possibility because I don’t really have the hard facts to say no, it’s absolutely crazy talk, that this isn’t happening.

David:                   Yeah, I have a feeling my wife’s not going to buy that if I said “oh, I was sleep texting, honey.”

Dr. Kline:             I agree, but there have been a few case studies that I have seen where I went “Wow, this is just bizarre.” Here is one of the arguments, let’s say you use a phrase over and over, that phrase came out in one person. Let’s say you texted something to your wife all the time, whatever it is, endearment statements, something like that. Well, that came out in the text message. It wasn’t a six-paragraph text message, it was this statement that this person used all the time with a lot of people. It just could be misleading depends on who the person who’s behind the text message is.

Dan:                       I think this raises a really interesting question of responsibility or moral culpability because like with the guy who was strangling his wife. Do you hold him responsible for that? If it’s true, and these people are actually sleep texting, do you hold them responsible for what they did or not? It’s kind of like the insanity defense when someone is hauled into court for doing something criminal. Does the person have the excuse with the sleepwalking? It sounds like the jury’s still out on that.

Dr. Kline:             The jury’s still out, it’s an argument. It’s the same with the murder trial, and what they said in that situation was we don’t believe it. We don’t believe in this sleep texting phenomenon that you can commit murder because you’re sleepwalking or whatever. So, I think it’s this funny thing too in mental health versus criminal insanity, let’s take a child with mental retardation and they push their brother down the stairs and kill him, God forbid. So it’s that funny kind of thing, how much control and how much not control. The legal system is they say we don’t care who did it or why we did it, it happened.

David:                   That’s an interesting topic, sleepwalking and sleep texting.

Dan:                       And sleep murdering, in your sleep, allegedly.

David:                   We appreciate you coming out and kind of giving us some insight into that, Dr. Kline.

Dr. Kline:             It was very enjoyable.

David:                   How can people get in touch with you?

Dan:                       How can people find out more?

Dr. Kline:             The easiest thing is just to go to my Internet site, very simple, Dr. Kline online, drklineonline.com, and then there are areas to contact me if they have any questions or any ideas and things like that.

David:                   And they can just simply email you with questions and you respond back.

Dr. Kline:             On that Site, there is a place for emails. It sometimes takes me a few days to get back to questions.

David:                   Okay.

Dan:                       Awesome.

Dr. Kline:             Very good guys. I really appreciate it.

Dan:                       Thanks for letting us interview you.

Dr. Kline:             Yeah, and turn off your phones when you go to bed.

Acid Attack or Hoax

Dan:                Hello welcome to Head Shrink Inc. my name is Dan Bates.

David:             And I'm David Simonsen.

Dan:                I am a certified counselor and I typically work with families and youth and individuals that are mandated by a judge.

David:             So they have to see you.

Dan:                Meet me.

David:             Yes correct.

Dan:                Because they're forced.

David:             And I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and have a PhD in Psychology and I work with at risk youths, families and couples.

Dan:                Just for FYI, I'm not a chain smoker so, this is a cold.

David:             Oh, I thought it was more about you just getting emotional the whole time. It sounded like you were about to cry.

Dan:                Yeah.

David:             The whole time.

Dan:                No.

David:             So you're not about to cry?

Dan:                No.

David:             Does tears streaming out of your eyes are just pain?

Dan:                No. those tears are just the weather.  No.

David:             Tears of joy for being in the room with me?

Dan:                Yeah. Tears of joy.  So today we're talking about a disorder called body dysmorphic disorder. You may be thinking, that's a really crazy name, what does that even mean?

David:             It's cray-cray.

Dan:                It's cray-cray but, essentially, just pulling from the name,  it's like the essential nature of the disorder is, you see your body in a distorted way. So the characteristics of the disorder is self-loathing of your body.  You obsess over certain imperfections and it's usually associated with anxiety and depression and so, from myself, I can relate a lot with this disorder because when I was growing up, believe it or not, I wasn't handsome stud that I am today.

David:             Really?

Dan:                I know.  I was chubby kid, who was obsessed with video games, and wasn't funny and intelligent, and …

David:             Oh. Was that? How was that?

Dan:                Just an all around ladies man.

David:             How was that changed?

Dan:                Chuckle.  So, like a lot of kids would make fun of me and call me fat and I just hated  the locker room, you know what I mean? I hated  having to undress in front of other people because I was just  ashamed of my body and so …

David:             Because of your man boobs?

Dan:                The man boobs, the kid boobs, yeah.

David:             Oh, I had kid boobs too.

Dan:                And so, it's like, of course you my bodies changed a lot and I'm not in that same place but …

David:             So then, for you that was changed at some point though?

Dan:                Yeah. I changed, like I mean I kind of grew into my body, I'm six foot seven now and so it's like …

David:             Whoa.  You did grow into your body.

Dan:                I did grow into my body. So, I mean it's like, I like my body now and I'm not ashamed of it.

David:             So the difference between somebody that has BDD or body dysmorphic disorder is that it becomes an obsession for them, whatever the issue is, whether that's their skin, whether it's how their nose looks, whether it's how their feet are shaped. I mean any number of issues that …

Dan:                Yeah.

David:             It dramatically affects their lives and they can't …

Dan:                Right.

David:             Stop thinking about.

Dan:                And here's the crazy thing, it's not, they're not, people with BDD are not ugly people.  They could be very attractive people, but for whatever reason, societal pressures, media, their own thoughts, they obsess over certain aspects of their body to such a degree that it's obsessive, and it results in self harm, pain, depression, like I said.

David:             So we have a great story.

Dan:                Yeah.

David:             To go with that.  That our guest producer Jordan Thompson is going to tell us about.

Jordan:           In 2010, on a warm summer evening in Washington State, Bethany Storro, a vibrant 28 year-old was, walking downtown Vancouver towards a local coffee shop. A woman approached her and said, "Hey pretty girl, how are you? Would you like a drink of this?" then out of nowhere, the woman splashed a cup of liquid into Bethany's face, the liquid was acid. Bethany fell to the ground, screaming in pain. Here's Bethany Storro, It was like fire to my face. Somebody screamed out,  Did someone do this to you? I just said yes and that's when it all began.

Paramedics rushed Bethany to the hospital, while police launched a search for the attacker. Soon, the first, before, and after photos of Bethany were released to the public. On the left, a stunningly beautiful woman in her 20s and on the right, an image so shocking, media outlets, more often than not, warned viewers before airing the photos. Two days after the attack, Bethany's doctor said a pair of sunglasses she bought just 20 minutes prior to the attack likely saved her vision.

"And I don't really normally wear sunglasses, I just don’t like them or anything. It's a miracle because, I mean 20 minutes, that's like, that's Jesus for sure I mean you know!"  Bethany’s sight is especially important to her, because she's hard of hearing, and her primary way of communicating is reading lips. Bethany and her family hold a press conference from the hospital. Bethany's entire head is covered with bandages with just three small holes for her eyes and her mouth.

Police then released a composite of Bethany Storro's attacker. She identified her attacker as an athletic, black female with a ponytail. Six days after the attack, Bethany was released from the hospital. She was shocked to hear her community raised $28,000 in just a matter of days through fundraising and charity work but 10 days after the attack, with no leads from the police, some locals started raising the question, is it possible that she injured herself?

Some local publications pointed to the lack of splash patterns on her face. They also question why there were no witnesses at one of Vancouver's most highly trafficked areas and some people found it very fishy that Bethany, who had no problem holding press conferences, canceled an appearance on Oprah Winfrey show. Police also found no record of Bethany buying the sunglasses prior to the attack and finally, Bethany used fundraiser money to buy clothing, dinners, a train ticket, and an Apple computer device. With all those questions surfacing, something finally broke. 

On September 16^th, Bethany Storro admits it was all an elaborate hoax and injuries were self inflicted. "People are shocked, saddened and downright dumbfounded that this troubled young woman would not only mutilate her own face, but tell a lie to the world..." "Washington state woman who splashed acid in her face as part of bizarre hoax has pleaded not guilty..."  "A story that took a bizarre turn when she admitted that she made it all up..." 

Bethany Storro had something called body dysmorphic disorder, a serious disease, that in the majority of the cases, individuals are obsessed with the minor or imagined physical flaw. On top of that, she had also been diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. She had been on medication before, but records show she was not taking anything the day that she burned her face.

Here's how it went down. Bethany applied drain cleaner to her face several times that day in an apparent attempt to commit suicide. When she couldn't bring herself to drink the drain cleaner, she decided to show up outside the coffee shop and scream for help. Bethany Storro was quoted saying; "When I realized it wasn't killing me, I thought maybe this is the answer to all my problems, to have a completely different face. I thought there'd be no evidence of me doing this to myself." 

Storro said her body dysmorphic disorder started when she was 15 or 16, when she withdrew from friends and started spending hours in the bathroom staring at herself and examining what she perceived as flaws. Following her admission to fraud, Bethany pleaded guilty to making a false statement to a public official and was sentenced to mental health treatment. The three theft charges were dropped once Storro returned the $28,000 but many people believe the true punishment was lifelong mutilation inflicted by Bethany Storro herself.

David:             Hello we're going to talk to Marcus Griffith today. Marcus is a freelance journalist, he worked for Vancouver Voice and now currently does some freelancing for The Vancouver Vector and he is working on a bigger, more long-term project that's to be announced.  So we wanted to bring Marcus on because he … as we're talking about,  the Beth Storro Story, he was one of the, or the first person to question the validity of the story that she was bringing to the to the newspapers and to the police.  So, I'm curious Marcus, what was the, what, was it gut thing or was it kind of, what was it?

Dan:               What tipped you off? Yeah?

David:             Yeah?

Marcus:          Just like everyone else, when I first heard of Bethany Storro’s story, I accepted it at face value. It was in the process of trying to locate the perpetrator, that I came across some information that casted doubt on her initial stories.  Then as more information came out, they were just increasing holes at her own story and there was a lot of conflicting statements from bystanders and witnesses to the alleged incident.

I was focused on, this was an incident occurred in my own neighborhood, a few blocks away from where I live, I obviously have a more vested interest in the case than a lot of other journalists, and I was going out to try to find who did it so that the story headline I was originally going for was finding the perpetrator.  Now why the Columbian or the [inaudible 00:12:10] didn't send a reporter out to actually do an independent Investigation, there’s going to be great questions heading their way.

Dan:                Well, Marcus it seem like there was a lot of, because I mean I was in the same boat as you were, like heard about this story, my heart was wrenched, I mean I couldn't believe this happened blocks away from me, and so I mean I gave like $10  at the grocery store for the fund, and so, I mean it seemed like everybody just bought into the story and didn't want to question it like there's a lot of fear surrounding, you know, looking further deeper into it.   That didn't faze you, you went out and kept looking.

Marcus:          Well it did phase me. I mean, it did face a lot of people. I mean a part of the issue was when you look at the media coverage at that time, is that people that believe Bethany were the most vocal. The people who had doubts, for the most part they keep it in themselves, It's very much the Emperor's new clothes phenomenon. No one wanted the state being treated obvious, and as whether or not it phased me is kind of question the horrible decision for us to write our first article about the caustic questions surrounding the acid attack and that was a very soft punched article. 

We were very polite and even apologetic in the beginning of the article about needing to question it but at the time we came with the article, we had enough evidence and enough people questioning the story that we felt we were right to question it. I was very aware of the catch 22 I was in, if we were right, that the story was a hoax, we're dealing with a person who really was causing a lot of emotional harm to the public. If we are wrong and she really was attacked, we would be, for the lack of a better word, very rude people adding trauma to an already sticky issue, uncomfortable to the end.

David:             What was the worst that you were called or that your newspaper was called?

Marcus:          At the time we were labeled The Devil's Paper by a couple of groups.  I received dozens and dozens of emails with death threats, demands that I get fired. I was called everything from a hack to a Satanist. I had someone spit in my coffee that I knew.

David:             No, wow.

Marcus:          Part of it was some people bothered to apologize, but at the same time, from a lot of people who reacted very emotional to this question, they took the position that Bethany was attacked, and they knew her, cared about her.  They had trouble even imagining that this could be a lie, and here I was, some guy just, throwing salt in the wounds for my own perverse amusement.  From that perspective I understood why there is [inaudible 0:14:55] and it was a very traumatic experience for a lot of people.

One of the questions I had at the time and still has never really got a satisfactory answer is why was it so hard to believe that a middle aged white woman would lie about an acid attack but so easy to believe a middle aged black woman would conduct an acid attack? I mean there is a fundamental issue with that disparity and because Bethany fabricated an African American attacker, she did bring the race component, and for a couple of weeks, her attack was hijacked by white supremacists  worldwide as example of racial issues. There is that level of racism that Bethany invited in for reasons that we still don't know.

Dan:                I think I've misspoke early. I understand why, how that could be a huge risk for you to kind of stick your neck out and look at the story from a different way.   How do you think or why do you think that you know, the hoax could cause emotional harm to the community?

Marcus:          Well we look at it at a couple of different perspectives. One, the idea that a hoax is victimless is not true. One, there are a lot of people who gave money for the wrong reasons. There is a lot of African American women who match the description, that were spot by police or profiled, there are several women I knew who stopped coming to downtown because they sort of looked like the suspect. There were people who were profiled. There is the emotional harm because the next time there's an issue, people are going to be cynical and what if the next time is real, and people withhold support because they like, well, we’ve been burned once.

Dan:                Right.

Marcus:          There's also this harm when you emotionally whiplash anyone, it causes adverse effects and the community rallied around here and that have to realize the shock that it is wrong, and then there's that emotional harm into the community is that numb feeling, that disbelief, the gut wrenching, [inaudible 14:03] they were thinking about this horrible attack being real. That was a bit of a rollercoaster for people, and not the fun type.

Dan:                Yeah and you know what too? You brought up a good issue because when this happened I was proud of our community, rallying behind her.  It was like a source of like, yes you know, out of all the crap in the world, we're actually, the community as a whole is responding rightly to her, you know like, this is great, and then to find out that she wasn't being honest was devastating.

Marcus:          And back at, during the time of the incident, I even myself, was very supportive of the fact that we are living in a society and a community that rallies around us.

Dan:                Exactly, exactly.

Marcus:          After attacking Washington on a male that happened shortly before Bethany's attack, there was the acid attack on the Arizona woman which happened shortly after the attack.

Dan:                Right.

Marcus:          In Vancouver, we  really rallied around this person we thought was a victim of a horrible attack and so, when not minimizing the attacks on the other cities, those definitely civic, not necessarily pride but civic involvement. We belong to a community that are going to take care of our own.

Dan:                Right, right.

David:             So Marcus, when did the diagnosis of body dysmorphic disorder come into the story?

Marcus:          Well that is a curious question.  That came up long after I kind of disengaged. I questioned the validity of that diagnosis, obviously I haven't been privy to her medical reports or interviews or say assessments but like most mental health diagnoses that are largely dependent on self report, I would have to air a voice of  caution in believing any of Bethany Storro's self reports.  How can we go from believing she committed one hoax, and now we're going to believe in the very next statement she comes up about why she did the hoax? I don't think there's any signs of evidence that her hoax was a product of depression or body image at the time though it's curious that they arose months and months later.

Dan:                So are, I didn't know that, because when I heard the story I always heard it in connection with BDD. So are you saying that addition, the BDD aspect came in after?

Marcus:          I'm not privy to her personal timeline, her personal medical reports [inaudible 0:19:36] but during the time as it was unfolding.

Dan:                Right.

Marcus:          You know she allegedly was trying to do a do-it-yourself acid peel. she researched on the internet on how to do it.  She went to a local convenience store to pick up latex gloves, and the drainer.  She picked up all the tools she did, she went to an isolated park bathroom to do it, to conduct it, and somehow it ended badly and then hours later, the idea that to hoax started. Nothing in that transparent says that this was really a suicide attempt, this is being done because she hated her image. Now, obviously as a cosmetic procedure, she obviously had some critiques about her appearance but women get acid peels, and then all the time that's still perfectly fine.

Dan:                So the stuff, the stuff that you just described about you know, latex gloves, Park, I                       mean, is that all documented somewhere?

Marcus:          Yeah, that came out in police reports and at the time that was what came out.  That was some of the information that really started me talking about the hoax was my understanding, and it has been a couple of years, so it could be a little blurring.  There were debit card purchases for the drainer, on the latex gloves or something that was on the police report, about why they were suspicious of it because the search warrant they had to search her house was for drainer and gloves and things be used for applying plastic substance to her face so that was really, you know, the big call for search warrant we had was for a drainer and gloves.

Dan:                So are you saying like she felt a need to do the acid peel because of the BDD or you just said you weren't sure of the timeline or…?

Marcus:          Well, again, not being ever privy on her mental health record or report, I  want to be in a little bit of a caution….

Dan:                Right, right.

Marcus:          But there was nothing about the incident or how it unfolded that suggested that she actually had some type or embarrassment over her look.

Dan:                Okay.

Marcus:          She was extremely media friendly. Everyone remembers the photos she posted while in the hospital, the one where she looked depressed, the one where she was happy, she was confident, in a room full of reporters with international news.  This behavior is one that you typically don't associate with someone who has serious self doubt about their look.

Bethany was, for all types of purposes, running a very sophisticated media campaign, the only time she got shy was one she was emailed and asked questions about certain specific details about the nature of the attack, and that was not conducive of body image, that strikes more like of someone trying to cover up a lie, rather than someone who's embarrassed by how they look.

Dan:                Yeah and I've seen several pictures of her and it, it doesn't, the extent of the burns, none of her eyes are affected, her lips aren't affected, its, it looks like it was around her forehead and cheeks and nose.

Marcus:          If you look at the photos, it was that, the burn lines mimic a very carefully applied cosmetic pattern, which is, blend to the idea that this was a do-it-yourself acid peel gone horribly wrong.  She, the chin line, the forehead line, the eye line, those were all very clear, very carefully articulated lines.  They were not conducive to the person being in an altered state who's trying commit suicide, you know, her statements were not adding up. Since the incident, years later, now when she has the book out, talking about, you know, body image issues,  she doesn't seem, still doesn't explain certain details that refute that. 

So as far as I'm concerned, absence of more convincing evidence, I'm writing off her books and claims of body images are just  another hoax to sucker  people out of more money because she's mastered being victim to get attention. I know that is kind of harsh but she was going on Oprah and talk about her acid attack and according to her own friends at the time, try to launch a career as a Christian inspirational speaker. She re-thought and cancelled her Oprah appearance because she was worried that Oprah would talk about other things.

I think the quote from the time was “We’re going in another direction.” so even at the time she was trying, appear to be trying to find a way to launch a public speaking career, and that doesn't really match up with someone who has serious body images issues.

Dan:                Yeah. Well you make a lot of good points Marcus. Alright well, it's been a pleasure talking with you and we really appreciate you coming on and giving us your perspective so thank you very much.

David:             Where can people find you if they're wanting to track you down?

Marcus:          We're in the process of making a new online news entity called The Ogre News, traditional spelling,  for the Vancouver area.  It's an online news site, it's still being in kind of the launch phase, but we'll see if it can evolve into a greater project over the next few months.

David:             Okay, so ogernews.com?

Marcus:          That is correct.

David:            Alright, thank you Marcus.

Dan:                Thanks Marcus.

Dan:                So this raises a lot of questions.  First of all, what is BDD?  What are the symptoms and so let me just rattle off a few things.  Camouflaging, so like you cover up the parts of your body that you're ashamed with. Comparing your body, your appearance to others, seeking surgery, checking yourself constantly out in the mirror,  avoiding mirrors, grooming a lot, a lot of exercise, and then like, grabbing the part of the body that you dislike.

So that's BDD in essence.  It’s obsession over the part of your body that you don't like but what was, what was going through her mind when she was doing this is, my guess is, she was in the bathroom, she hated the aspect which would be her face, and so she went to go kill the thing or destroy the thing that was causing her pain.

David:             No, no. The problem you run into is that, if you say, oh she had no, granted I don't have any access  to any of her mental health records and I've never talked any of her doctors and I did reach out to Bethany.   I did reach out to her mother, and they never responded back to me, to be a part of this show.   I did reach out to Bethany's ex-mother in law and she basically said I'm not, this is what she wrote me, I'm not in any way shape or form interested in helping Bethany, she is a liar and manipulative person who I never want to see again.  She will wrap you up around her finger, pretending to be authentic but it is all a lie.

So obviously she's biased, the ex-mother-in-law. So, and just to be fair, she, she's probably been hurt not just by this issue but because Bethany was involved in their lives with her son I believe. The problem I have with saying yes, Bethany has BDD, is that all the people that really do have BDD that really suffer with BDD, I think this diminishes the diagnosis for those other people potentially because those are the people that really don't go outside because they have an issue with something.  These are the people that really can't function in relationships and really are obsessed about their looks because if you currently today go to Facebook and you search for Beth Storro, as of right now, her Facebook is completely open and she freely posts pictures of herself, now maybe she's cured from the BDD.

The cure rate of that I'm not exactly sure what it is, but it's hard to believe that she had it to the extreme of where she put acid on her face and was going to kill herself to now she freely is posting lots of pictures of herself on Facebook and writing about her latest facial procedure. That does not strike me as somebody that has BDD diagnosis. Now, she may have depression, granted.  She may have some other kind of challenges but the specific BDD diagnosis, I question that.  I'm not saying it's, it is impossible for her to not have it, but given the actions that I see, I don't pay attention to what people say often, I pay more attention to the actions.

Dan:                That's fair but you do have to consider the possibility that her doing this hoax, in turn, got her the help she needed. It was an ineffective way of getting help, but it was, it was a way, I mean, we deal with people who do that all the time.  They have pain in the relationships and so they don't have effective ways of communicating the problem or solving the problem so they do it in a bad way but it is a way.

David:             Yeah.

Dan:                You know, I'm willing to look at the inconsistencies but you’ve got to understand if she is someone in pain, and with a mental health disorder, I'm not expecting her to be consistent.

David:             Right. did she look up BDD or was it something that someone suggested and then she kind of latched on to that?  I don't know, but we'll probably never know unless she actually is willing to take the hard questions. I think in the meantime it's, it's a good thing to, for people that are listening to the podcast and if, that if they have friends or families that struggle with this issue, to get them help, and the best help can be done with the local psychologist or psychiatrist because this is something that could be really debilitating to the person. 

If they don't have the help that they need, then they could just struggle for the rest of the lives unfortunately. So I think this story has come to, came to national attention because, Oh look at this crazy diagnosis of BDD you know, and so it made great news, national news, local news, international news, and so this was put up as, okay this is what BDD can do, and I don't, I'm not convinced that that's a good example.

Dan:                Yeah and David I, I got to be honest with you, I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. The inconsistencies, even though I just got done saying, she has mental health disorder, so it makes sense that she would be inconsistent.  There are characteristics of this disorder that would make her more prone to not being in the spotlight, not wanting to draw attention to yourself because her self perception is she's ugly. Why would she want to put a spotlight on herself and part of it is shame, and the fact that she was in a public bathroom, why is she in a public bathroom? Why isn't she home? The fact that the scarification is so uniform, there's just too many, there's too many things about this that make me think, I don't know if this is true BDD. Now, I have experience working with people who have related symptoms like anorexia and bulimia who also have a, a dual diagnosis of BDD and for them it's like a very shameful, private thing and to go to extreme lengths, and I mean by extreme, I'm not just talking about like …

David:            Covering something up?

Dan:                Covering something up, but they will go to extreme lengths to hide, to keep secret what they're doing, they won't draw attention to it all, and if there was a spotlight cast on them, they would just like go into a hermit hole, they would not like embrace it.

David:             I want to make sure that if you know someone or if you yourself listening    to this have some issues with BDD, we really encourage you to go seek out a specialist, a psychologist or psychiatrist that can help you, give you some ideas or avenues to go down to help with this, because like I said before, it can be debilitating.

Dan:                Oh absolutely.

David:             And it can cause relationship issues and issues at your workplace and things like that.

Dan:                Yeah. It can lead to eating disorders and eating disorders are like the number one killer for the, anorexia has the highest death rate out of any, out of all the mental health disorders.  My recommendations would be, find help with a counselor, psychiatrist, access support groups like Eaters Anonymous and then you know, don't keep it secret.  That's the big thing, that's the killer about this disorder is secrecy, don't keep it secret, come out to your friends and family, get support. Alright, well, you're welcome, that's all I'm going to say, for this story.

David:             Hey we are Head Shrink Inc, Dan and I. I'm mostly Head Shrink Inc, Dan is the Inc part, I'm the head shrink.

Dan:                David is the …

David:             Come on, come on weedy man, weedy smoker man.

Dan:                He's the shrehh. He's the shhhh. 

David:             Oh good one. You can follow us on Facebook where Dan thinks he is amazing because he is getting followers or twitter where I'm amazing because I have so many follower @headshrinkinc is where I am at twitter.

Dan:                Or you can go to HDshrinkinc on twitter.

David:             Oh that's creative. Good job.

Dan:                Well, you know …

David:             I have taken your head shrinking already.

Dan:                I do what I do.

David:             Or email us @ headshrinkinc@Gmail.com.  We're trying a new format here with a more produced podcasts, more story, more storied podcast so let us know what you think, we look forward to your comments.

Dan:                Alright, bye.